Welcome back to the Founding Mina Show.
This is episode number two. They haven't
kicked us out the studio yet, which is
great.
>> Yep. We're just uh streaming 24/7.
>> Exactly. That's it. Yeah. Same t-shirts.
We're back here again. Um more news.
It's been another crazy crazy week,
hasn't it?
>> A lot happened in the region.
Absolutely.
>> A lot has happened. And um I mean, I
want to get into it, but I know we're
going to go through a nice little higher
or lower first, right? and you'll be
testing my knowledge straight away.
>> Yeah. How long have you been in the
region?
>> I've lived in Dubai 2 years now.
>> All right. So, let's let's test the your
knowledge and see if it actually matches
all of that. The concept is higher or
lower. So, I'm giving you a statement
and you have to tell me if it's higher
or if it's lower. So, let's get into it.
Let's
>> do it.
>> Was the Burke Kalifa construction cost
higher or lower than $2 billion?
>> I'm going to go with higher. I reckon it
was probably closer to about four
billion.
>> It was lower.
>> What?
>> Yeah. 1.5
>> 1.5 billion.
>> Bear in mind this was 2008 2009. So I
think adjusted for inflation it would be
like close to three. Okay.
>> But uh but it's still incredibly cheap
compared to other buildings. I mean it's
like 160 floors.
>> That's true. 1.5 billion seems
affordable. Yeah. Exactly as you're as
you're saying it.
>> Absolutely. I mean some companies are
raising that for seed round now. So
>> that's true. They could build their own
birch. Yeah. Now talk about towers. So
you know that Saudi is building another
tower in Jedha which will be taller. Um
so is the future tower height higher or
lower than 1 kilometer?
>> It's higher.
Yeah, it must be higher.
>> Yeah, slightly higher. Yeah. Yeah. Uh
the exact height is not actually we
don't know yet, but they want to go
above the the 1 kilometer. Uh 1,000
mters, man. It's going to be about 200 m
higher than the than the BC Khalifa.
>> Okay. Someone who hates heights, that's
my worst nightmare. I will not be
visiting.
>> All right. One closer to your field. So,
the number of series A rounds in the
Mina region in the first half of 2026.
>> Okay.
>> Was it higher or lower than 50?
>> Sadly, I think it's going to be lower
than 50. It was a tricky start to 2026
for obvious reasons.
>> Yeah, it was 30. uh across the whole
region it feels like a pretty low number
>> and if you compare to the US 1,200.
>> Really? Wow. Yeah. But
>> I know we can't compare. I'm just saying
it's a benchmark. Um yeah,
>> that's an interesting stat.
>> All right. I know you love conferences.
So, how many conferences per year in
Dubai? Is it higher or lower than 500?
And by conferences, I don't mean side
events or little, you know, get
together. I mean conferences that have
more than 1,000 attendees. So, proper
events.
>> Genuinely, it feels way more than 500.
I'm going to say there's like triple. I
feel I feel like Yeah, substantially
more than 500.
>> Actually, it's just over 500. 510. Uh
that's like almost two a day if you
count, you know, just like
>> open days.
>> Well, yeah, exactly.
>> That's that's a insane amount.
>> Yeah, that's way too much. Um what are
they doing conferences for?
>> I think it's attendees of conferences
going to other conferences. You know,
I've been to some events where you have
more speakers than attendees, which is a
little bit sad.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> All right. So, you also know I'm I'm
guessing that Dubai is building a new
mall that'll be bigger than Dubai Mall,
right? Dubai Square Mall. Um, will the
number of shops in that mall be higher
or lower than 1,200?
>> 1,200 shops in one mall.
>> That's a crazy stat in its own right.
>> Surely it can't be more than 1,200.
>> It's more 1500.
>> You're joking. 1500 shops. Yep.
>> Wow.
>> Yep. It's actually quite the Dubai mall
already has over a thousand, but I think
this pushes it to the to the next level.
>> That is crazy.
>> All right. And the last one. So, the the
amount of capital invested by all the
sovereign wealth fund uh in the first
half of 2026, was it higher or lower
than $50 billion?
>> 50 billion is a crazy number as well. I
would say it's it's got to be around
that. I would say it's close to that if
not maybe slightly more with the AI
deals that they've been doing.
>> 70 billion.
>> 70 billion. Wow. How many of those deals
are in AI? Do you know roughly as a
percentage?
>> I mean, in terms of size, I think it's
it's um it's going to be more than 50%,
because I can already, you know, the
OpenAI deal I think was 30. Anthropic
was close to 30 as well. So yeah, it's
it's mainly AI and it's driven by um you
know PIF obviously MGX here, Mubadala.
So yeah, those guys, you know, they
don't don't mess around when they have
conviction.
>> No,
>> those are some big checks. Wow. Okay.
>> All right. I think you got half right.
So it's it's okay. I do better next
time.
>> It's a reasonable score. I'll take it.
>> Thank you, mate. Well, there we go. Um
so that's a good test of my knowledge
and to to wake me up and get going.
Let's get into the things that have
happened this week because it has been
an exciting week as we say. Um the first
thing I want to kick off with was the
Mnt Halan IPO in Egypt this week. This
is Egypt's biggest IPO since 2021 and it
is pretty big news. Um the first day u
of trading price was up by about 6.6%.
Uh as I said it's the largest IPO that's
happened in 5 years. um and it valued
the business at almost 42 billion
Egyptian pounds or about $770 million.
What's important about that number is
that Mnt Halan has carried a valuation
of about $1.4 billion um to date, but
actually they were only IPOing a
specific part of the business, actually
the the uh Egyptian side of the
business. Um, this is great news, right,
for any tech scale up in the region to
see not only a local listing happen,
which is a great thing. And second of
all, that IPOs are starting to open up
and actually starting to be uh p pushed
through and and moving. We need
liquidity in this region. We spoke about
this on the episode last week. We have a
lot of companies that have received a
lot of investment capital and it's about
time that we start cycling this through.
Um, what I want to know is whether or
not you would be investing in this IPO.
>> If you look at the multiple, it's pretty
low, right? So, in dollars, the revenue
for 2025 for this company was $365
million. Yeah. And essentially, they're
trading at 2x700.
Um, so I looked at like comparables,
right? The they're actually growing
quite fast, 50% yearonear, which is on
par with Revolute. Um, but if you look
at Revolute, their multiple on revenue
is 19x.
>> Wow.
>> 19x. So at the same multiple, Halan
would be worth 7 billion.
>> That's crazy.
>> So there's a huge discount, $6 billion
discount. Um, now if you look at Monzo,
New Bank, like Revolute is the extreme,
right? Because they are they are
considered more like a tech play rather
than the bank. Um, but still we have a
very low multiple. So uh the question is
why why such a why such a discount?
Yeah,
>> I think that um what's pretty clear here
is the the business model, right? You
can call yourself a fintech, but
ultimately if all you do is loans, which
is the case here, micro lending, then
you're valued like a bank. And we know
that financial services and banks, they
don't really uh command a huge multiple
because they are, you know, you need a
lot of assets to scale a business like
that. It's uh it's very um just doesn't
scale as much, right? The margins are
low. Um and Revolute has been
positioning itself as a as a tech
platform because it sells services and
it sells products. Um whereas Halan gets
bank multiples.
>> Yeah.
>> Um I think there's a big discount on the
volatility of the currency as well. Um
and the region generally that is seen as
a bit you know higher risk than than the
US. Yeah.
>> So I think that it it's pretty
underpriced. Um if you think about it
it's not actually like a a giant company
compared to what we can see. Um and um
it's I think you know a decent decent
investment.
>> Yeah, 100% I agree. And staying on that
IPO theme, we actually have the first
Dubai based IPO of 2026. Um which is DIP
Holding. Um so Dubai Investments,
they're selling 20% of their subsidiary
DIP uh holding. For those who don't
know, um this is the holding company
that owns Dubai Investments Park.
>> It's a real estate, right?
>> It's a real estate play. Exactly. um
they are expecting the subscriptions to
kind of open up on the 27th of October
through to early November with final
price set around November the 4th. So
it'll be interesting to see the price of
that company when it comes out.
>> The reason I say that is because they're
promising a pretty big annual dividends,
right? If you look at the numbers here,
we're talking about 700 million AED, 725
million AED, and then 750 million AED
across 26, 27, and 2028. um pay.
>> So, it's basically a bond investment. I
mean, it it feels like I'm a little less
excited about this one. I mean,
obviously, you know, it's IPO is great,
but it's it's it's a real estate
company. Um I think, you know, the
>> the that tells you a lot about what the
market values here and um and what
investors in the public market really
really are willing to underwrite.
>> Agreed. Yeah. And I think actually when
you zoom out and look at the macro of
this, we can talk about the delay in
IPOs across the region because of the
the conflict here. However, go back to
2025. You know, there were 61 IPOs in
2025, raising $7.5 billion, which was
down from $13 billion raised via IPOs
the year before.
>> The trend unfortunately is is not 40 of
those were in uh in Saudi.
>> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So, it'll be
interesting to see how the performance
of this this IPO goes. Um, but as you
say, yeah, I think
>> the average raise $110 million. It's um
>> it's pretty thin. I mean, there's
obviously demand and I think um
>> yeah, it's as far as tech IPOs, you
know, we haven't we haven't really seen
that happening in the region. So, I
think real estate, you know, does make
sense. It's what people understand. Uh
it's something that is tangible that
local investors can can get behind. But
I feel like this is a a very different
type of IPO that you know we we hear
about and are used to. Um it's it's
something that's um yeah it's obviously
a very very safe investment. They're
already paying out dividends. Very
profitable company, great business.
>> Um
>> just a different type of u IPO to
underwrite.
>> Yeah, completely agree. Talking about uh
acquisitions though alongside these
IPOs, this is more I guess in in our
field and what we can get excited about.
>> That was exciting.
>> Yeah. And this is a a reverse almost
acquisition that's quite compelling. So
giant Qatari super app Snu has bought
Byte-Sight
>> Snoo Exactly. A US social and video
commerce platform that has come out of
YC. Um for anyone who's ever watched the
TV show Silicon Valley when they go and
pitch Seafood, this is what I thought
the proposition was straight away. Uh
when I read this and I was researching,
I was like, "Oh, that's interesting." Um
but actually it's it's a lot deeper than
that. It's really quite compelling. Um,
essentially what they're doing is
linking short form videos about food
from your favorite restaurants. Yeah. To
to actually the the ability to order
directly through the app. Um, why is
this cool? Well, firstly, it's a US app
that has got 150K downloads. You know,
number two in the app store food and
drink category ahead of Uber Eats and
McDonald's. So, a really interesting
piece of technology and an interesting
app. And it's been acquired by a Qatari
company and now they're bringing it here
to the region. We know that fast
commerce, quick commerce is absolutely
massive here and linking this to content
I think is going to be an absolute
winner, right? When it comes to rolling
this out um across the uh across the
region.
>> Yeah, I think this is a very underrated
deal. Uh one of the most exciting. I
think there's uh we're looking at it
there's three reasons why it's pretty
smart. So the first one is that it's
obviously an acquisition that is to
bring the people the talent of this
company, right? It's a very early
acquisition. the company's already only
raised 1.5 million probably pre-revenue.
So what you're acquiring is essentially
people and of course you know us
designers and product and tech it's
still top of the line. So if you can
acquire this knowhow as you scale your
product um that's that's incredible.
Second is the the business rational as
you mentioned it's very smart for a
company like this you know social
commerce essentially acquiring a
distribution engine that they will be
able to own is going to be how they are
acquiring their users. So it's um
defensibility um of a business like this
is the distribution.
>> So that's a very smart thing to do. But
I think the the the most important uh
reason why it's smart is actually the
signal that it creates in the market. um
to have a Qatari company that is
acquiring literally the pinnacle of tech
from YC and able to bring them here
bringing the founders here uh market
will talk about this a lot as something
exciting and create a precedent you know
for other companies in the region to do
the same
>> completely agree
>> I would question the defensibility of an
app like this like what you know could
uh Instagram or Tik Tok Tik Tok has been
making a big push in social commerce
when you now talk about a product, you
have the ability to sell it immediately.
They could go and do the same for food.
Having a dedicated app for this
standalone was probably pretty hard to
retain users. Now, if it's part of an
e-commerce platform, I think it makes a
lot more sense for a business like that.
>> Yeah, completely agree. I also think
this is a play into a much higher margin
area for these quickcommerce platforms
into retail media essentially and
traditional retail media. Obviously,
advertising within the app, very basic,
it's been around for a long time now. We
can link that now to social media
content creation, giving these brands
their own ability to create these links
and create these media assets. Yeah, I
think this is a really really smart play
by Snoooo and I guarantee we'll probably
see Kareem or Uber, even um Deliveroo
come out with potentially competitors or
maybe even make further acquisitions to
bring this into the region once this is
proven out. Um the fourth point I want
to get into is actually around uh pay
more. Did you see this? Uh, a really
interesting piece of tech.
>> I'm going to tell you what it is.
>> Okay.
>> And then I want you to tell me whether
you'd use it because I know you uh you
you like you know you like your things
the way they are.
>> What does that mean? What's that
supposed to mean?
>> No, I'm not saying you're old school,
but you know, I know you like what you
know. Um, essentially, Pay More, it it
gives GCC users access to prepaid cards.
So, you can prepay onto a card, but then
now what you can do is you can actually
access uh Palm Pay. So you can pay using
your palm or you can use uh your retina.
It will do a retina scan to pay using
your eyes.
>> Where can you do that though?
>> Okay. So this is the interesting point.
It's
>> two sides to make this.
>> I know I know I know. Let's but let's be
positive. It's it it's being rolled out
uh across the region. Um instead of
essentially instead of it being through
a terminal, it actually happens through
the app, right? So if a merchant has the
app and has that infrastructure and that
technology in place, that's how you can
pay and that's how you can use it. You
can also use it obviously through uh
through the app itself. Um I think
what's interesting about this is I saw a
company uh founded or co-founded by two
of the very early partners at Revolute
doing this maybe 3 four years ago. Uh it
was a company that expanded quite
quickly into the US an incredible cap
table of investors.
>> I've never heard about it ever since. I
don't know if it's taken off. Um I don't
have any friends saying to me, "Hey Sam,
why are you still paying with your
iPhone? I'm using my palm now." It's
something I've never seen, right?
>> To me, there is a lot of user uh
behavior that needs to change in order
for this to become a thing. Um it's
still when you see people paying with
their Apple Watch and you think, "What
are you doing?" Right? Um you know,
that's a and that's a fairly common
thing, right? In common place now. So,
so spinning the question back around,
are we going to see Sam Hoover paying
with his retinas or with his palm
anytime soon?
>> I don't I don't I don't think so. I
mean, look, everything that can
accelerate the checkout process is
obviously interesting, right? And I
think what I what I remember is um this
shop by Amazon, the workout shop. Oh,
yeah. Where you would just come in and
you put stuff in your in your cart and
you get out and you get build on the way
out. It's all automated. You you just
connect the cart before and it takes
care of it. So you don't even have to
check out.
>> Um I think today with uh you know Apple
Pay and Google Pay and all the things
where you can basically just pay by
clicking on your phone,
>> the barrier to entry is already pretty
low, right? It's pretty simple to pay in
most places. Great.
>> Um I also feel like with AI, it feels
like pawn palm payment is a little bit
like you know a fax machine in the in
the age of uh 5G, right? Yeah. um
because you will basically be able to
pay in the future potentially with your
AI agents um that handle all the
financial uh you know transactions. Um
>> by the time you get to the counter the
payments already made all of that can be
based on facial recognition. You don't
even need the palm. So it feels like the
future of payment is not just you know
faster payment. It's no no payment, no
checkout at all. Yeah. Um so I'm not
sure that um in the age of AI this
technology is is really warranted.
>> Yeah, I agree. I think it will be
interesting to see how the tech how the
the use case actually rolls out across
the region. Um
>> let's wait and see.
>> Let's see. I'm excited to start to see
people like I can't pay.
>> I hope it'll uh yeah I hope we'll be
proved wrong.
>> What happen if you're you know you don't
have enough money on your car? Like do
they just
>> steal your hand and off you go? I don't
know
>> your hands stuck on the machine until
you
>> It would be a very interesting spate of
thefts, right? Um if that if that does
play out.
>> What about the risk as well? Like if you
have a lot of money on this card and all
you need is someone's palm, you know,
you could imagine that getting access to
that was probably as easy as getting,
you know, a phone.
>> You think?
>> No, probably not.
>> I was going to say, what are you going
to pick me up and carry me to the shop
and, you know, while I'm asleep? Um,
>> good luck, man.
Um, so the next piece of news is
actually the and this is an exciting
one. I think we were both discussing
this before we hit record. This is super
exciting. Robin Hood has picked DICc as
its Middle East headquarters. We have
seen a plethora a number of companies
now expanding into the region picking
ADGM DIC above anywhere else to come and
launch and and to scale or across the
region. Um it was announced this week
that they received their Dubai Financial
Services Authority license so they can
bring the retail investment platform to
the region. That's super cool. Um it
covers everything across trading and
custody. Um 10, you know, approved asset
classes, equities, crypto, ETFs,
investment tokens, everything basically.
This has been a long road though. Robin
Hood applied for this category 4 license
back in 2025. They appointed uh Mario
Kamar as a senior executive officer for
to cover the Mina region. Uh but today's
release names Salah Kadora as the senior
executive officer and president of Robin
Hood Mina. So they will be taking it
forward from there. I think it's really
interesting that we're seeing the likes
of Revolute Robin Hood start to make
these plays in the region. We can't
forget that we have existing players
that are here already, right? I think
the real question to ask though is what
does this mean about the homegrown
players who are based here? So Baraka,
Sawa, E Toro, Equity, you know, they've
been building their businesses along
with the licenses while the likes of
Robin Hood and even Revolute were absent
from the region. It's taken them a long
long time to unlock users to go with the
user behavior and to start on boarding
those customers and building AUM. you
know, is Robin Hood now timing this at
the right point to come into the market
and is that what the uh you know,
biggest advantages they have or is it do
you think the kind of brand familiarity
and the product familiarity as well?
>> I actually don't know. I think it
depends of what the offering is within
the app. Um from what I know some of
this, you know, apps kind of offer the
same access to the same stock and the
same product. So we'll have to see if
there is any any differentiated offers
that the local players maybe have access
to more type of indexes and portfolios
and other opportunities. You know at the
end of the day it's all about what can
you access through this app. What type
of investment opportunities it'll be
interesting to see if um the crypto um
investment is also available through
through Robin Hood on the same platform.
>> Apparently it will be. Yeah. Which is uh
you know a big interesting move. Um I
think this just you know really kind of
highlights though how attractive the is
right to any international firm whether
it's finance AI you know essentially now
they're hosting this is the official
stat just over 10,018
active firms out of DIC
>> and we can't just assume that they're
all startups that are you know building
the the you know the the next the future
of the world you know these are large
organizations that have chosen DIC as
their base um and you know Robin Grid
Robin Hood has has kind of grown that
that long list now, which is is super
exciting.
>> Welcome to the region, guys.
>> Yeah, there you go. Um, in total, it's
taken them about 1.5 to two years to get
here though. Um, which I think is
potentially something that, you know, if
you are a company thinking of expanding
into this region, looking at the time
scales here, especially around the
regulation.
>> Well, that's because they have trading
and financial regulations on top of
simply creating a creating an entity,
right?
>> Yeah, exactly. Um, and I think that, you
know, as we start seeing regulators open
up and and look at the track record of
these companies kind of coming in and
being successful and doing it according
to the rules and the law, you we're
going to see the floodgates open, which
is super exciting. Um, and the last
piece of news from me in this in the
region this week was that Whoop, um,
Will Ahmed was over this,
>> he was over this week at the Abu Dhabi
Future Health Summit, right? and
actually dropped some really really
interesting numbers. Um, according to
Will, the really interesting numbers
that he dropped, uh, Whoop says its golf
memberships have grown by about 85% in
the past year alone and have grown over
15 times in the past 3 years. These are
the first time that these numbers have
been made public since.
>> Do we have the number of members or just
the person?
>> We don't. We only have the percentage.
Um, but again, it's a a kind of
directional figure which I think is
quite compelling. And we've also got to
understand that this is the first time
these numbers have been made public
since Mardler and 2.0 group joined uh
Whoops. So that $575 million series G uh
$75 million of that came from Mardler.
Um that was with a dedicated office that
had to be here in the UAE, full Arabic
localization and then the uh setup and
launch of the Woot Mabard Health
Research Initiative. If you're tracking
anything to do with longevity and
wellness here in the Middle East, in
particular in the UAE, you will know
that this is Yeah, this is a hugely
hugely exciting area to be, everyone is
looking at the region now going, okay,
longevity, wellness, we even have a
government minister set up for this and
a government initiative. Now
>> we are going to see this area explode, I
think, in the kind of coming months and
even in coming years. uh more companies,
bigger companies, better investment,
better regulation and ultimately all of
this is a positive thing for us here who
live in Dubai and in the UAE.
>> I agree. I think it's also an
interesting playbook that you can see
happening in the region where the
there's start to be a mandate around
specific topic like longevity generally
the region would look for a poster child
to kind of embody that that right and
they invest in it. They put a lot of
resources behind it. They made Whoop the
the main kind of headline um partner at
this longevity event to show an example
of what this strategy actually is. Yeah.
>> Um so this is this is a great example if
you can get your business in a situation
like this when you become the poster
child of one of the strategies you
basically set. So
>> 100% it's going to be exciting to see
where this goes. So that wraps up the
the news for the week. Okay. So we're
going to change up the tune a little bit
now. I want to go a little bit earlier
stage and I want to talk about the
fundraises that have occurred this week.
We're going to make this fun though,
Sam, because I know you love a game. And
yeah, for anyone who's noticed this new
prop that's just arrived on the table
here, this is the money gun. Uh this is
the gun. It's Sam's hardearned money.
Essentially, Sam, I'm going to rattle
through uh some of the early stage
fundraisers that have been announced
this week. If there's any company that
you would either angel invest in or you
think is a deadert to be a big big
company, fire the gun. So, the first
company that announced a $3.6 million
preede round was Vertex this week. It's
an embedded finance platform that lets
businesses add wallets, payouts, card
issuing and transfers to their products.
Very interesting cap table. SC Ventures
by Standard Chartered who are becoming
more and more active in the region in
particular in Saudi Sadu Capital Build
and others. Second company was Naba
Health which is an AI powered
preventative healthcare platform focused
on women's health. I can tell you that
Sophie the founder is an absolutely
incredible founder. Um what she has done
with NAPTA is really really impressive.
Uh they raised a $3 million pre- series
A round led by Phoenix Venture Partners.
And the third company is a company
called Vitals, an AI powered digital
health passport for storing and sharing
medical records across providers and
countries. They raised a $ 1.5 million
seed from EST Growmore. Very interesting
founding team there as well. And the
fourth company, Popcorn Studio, an AI
filmmaking platform uh for producing
cinematic videos with a focus on Arabic
context and dialects. They raised a $1
million preede round led by a very
well-known and wellrespected angel here
in the region. Uh company number five
was Capquest. Um good friends of mine,
an amazing team. They're an equity
management platform for capables, esops
vesting and shareholder communications.
Uh they've raised a million dollars in
preede from OSA Capital and AMKM Family
Office. A very impressive team who yeah,
you know, exited founders and have done
a hell of a lot of things together
before.
>> Oh, the guns.
>> The guns.
>> Let me invest.
Take my money. And the last company to
announce around this week was a car
exit. Uh a company coming out of Egypt.
uh what they've built is a platform that
lets property buyers who are struggling
with their installments, they can
transfer their contracts to new buyers
so that they can take on uh the
commitments from there. They raised 200k
from a very well-known and wellrespected
angel in the region. Um it's a great
result for uh Egyptian entrepreneurs who
I know have been finding it hard to
actually raise investment right now. Um
despite the fact that there are a hugely
number a huge number of talented people
building in Egypt.
>> So that wraps up the fundraisers for the
week. Game number two. Okay. So, what
I'm going to do is I'm going to give you
a simple statement about the region and
I want you to tell me whether it is hype
or reality. Understood.
>> Understood.
>> You get the rules of the game. Cool. All
right. Here we go. Okay. Statement
number one. The Gulf is one of the most
attractive places in the world to build
a data center.
>> Yeah, that's real reality. I think the
the hype is that it's much cheaper and
that it's all about cheaper power.
That's not the real reason, but there's
a lot of subsidies and the approval
times are very, very fast, which is very
attractive to a lot of hyperscalers.
>> I agree with that. Question number two,
>> no one asked you.
>> Thanks, man. Saudi Arabia is the
region's HQ for capital.
>> Hype for now. They are definitely
pushing hard with the HQ program where
if you are setting up a company there,
it has to become the HQ and your UAE
entity has to be a subsidiary of it.
They making a lot of push for that and
providing really insane advantages to do
that. But I think for now what we're
seeing is most of people coming to the
region start still with the UAE.
>> Agreed. Question number three. Mina
startups can easily exit
>> hype. I wish this was true. I think
there's as we've seen there's uh you
know the the liquidity especially for
tech uh there's not much of a public
market yet. Again I know there's a lot
of progress. They're working on it. Uh
hopefully we'll see our first tech exit
happening on the ADX or another local
exchange really soon.
>> Yeah, agreed. Statement number four, and
this is a crazy one to even think about
in it in itself. Governments in the
Middle East are more digital than
private sector companies.
>> That's real reality. Yeah, for sure. Um
I think you know the government here is
acting like a private sector. They're
risktaking. They're trying to do things.
They're willing to engage with
companies. um very forward thinking and
uh overall they are really you know
setting the the tone for what innovation
is. They're leading the charge when it
comes to innovation adoption of new
technologies.
>> Statement number five, Mina has deep
homegrown AI talent pool.
>> It's hype but it's transitioning to
reality. Um the reality is that the
region still imports most of the senior
AI talent. Uh but the region is also
training a lot of people with AI. I
think Abu Dhabi is training 20,000
officials um you know senior leaders,
government employees with Chad GPT,
other types of AI tools and I just
haven't seen a program like that in any
other country. U so they will get there.
They will they will catch up. Um the the
the usage of AI is also the highest in
the world. Um 80% of people that live
here use AI at least once a week. In the
US it's only 50%. So that's a massive
difference.
>> Yeah, I think it's Oh, yeah. 100% true
on that. Um, statement number six, the
line in Neon is going to get built.
>> Hype. It's not. Um, it's not going to
get built. At least not the 170 mi. Um,
you know, the MBS, I think himself said
that, uh, the idea with NEOM was that
you would aim for the stars and maybe
reach the moon. I think this is what
happened. the the grand vision is
getting rescoped but a lot of things are
still happening and neon the octagon and
I think the line as well um announced a
partnership with humane to become the
location where the data centers are
going to be built so they're repurposing
the the places that they have um the
octagon which is the uh um the harbor
and the ports and this kind of
industrial zone there is up and running
so there's a lot of components that you
know are operating but the line the
flagship project has been um rescoped.
Let's put it this way.
>> Yeah. Statement number seven. Uh the UAE
is the world's millionaire magnet.
>> Oh, that's real. I think it's the third
year straight that uh we're the country
that imports the most millionaires. Um I
think about close to 10,000 millionaires
a year uh that are coming here and uh
actually a lot of them at the expense of
uh your your your country UK. This year
the UK is the biggest exporter of of
millionaires.
>> That's true. Um, we don't go out to the
streets though and throw stuff around.
But anyway, I won't talk about that. Um,
on that question or on that statement,
sorry. Uh, that money that they're
bringing with them, these millionaires,
that's going to UAE startups.
>> Hype. I wish this was true. No, most of
that wealth goes into property, into
family offices, into investment. Um, not
really tech deals.
>> Yeah. Penultimate statement. driverless
transport will be here in Dubai by 2030.
>> By then it will be a reality. I think
there's a lot of initiatives. We talked
last week about the um Boring Company,
the tunnels. We talked about the
driverless pods in Abu Dhabi. You
already have autonomous Ubers that you
can request. And uh the strategy is to
automate 25% of all trips by 2030. So
would they get 25%? Not sure but a
portion of it will definitely be
automated.
>> It's an impressive target.
>> And the last statement, Mina region is
leading the narrative on AI sovereignty.
>> Super real. Um building a business on
top of that. So it's uh it's super real.
Um G42, Humane, those purpose-built
companies to handle AI in the region
were very early drumming up the interest
for for sovereignty. um which kind of
creates barriers as well because it's a
lot harder to you know access models if
they have to run here but at the end of
the day it's protecting the country
protecting the enterprises that are
using it because you can ensure that
your data does not leave the boundaries
of the country you have more control
over your your your data and um you know
the question is do you you really want
to outsource your intelligence what is
going to power your entire business
right we're not talking about a database
just sitting there we're literally
talking about intelligence and so if as
a business you're going to build
everything around AI all your processes
you know you have AI co-workers do you
really want those to sit somewhere else
in a country where you do not control
and you could potentially have you know
who knows what can happen right
geopolitics change and you don't have
access to that intelligence anymore so
rule number one is you need the
intelligence to happen in the country
and actually the next step of that that
some companies and government entities
are starting to think about is maybe the
country is not enough. It should be on
our premises. So there's different
layers to sovereignty. How close do you
want this data to you? So I don't know
if you saw but uh AI was added again. Um
this time finding some major
vulnerabilities in PHP. You know I don't
know if you studied any type of science
computer science but back in my day we
were actually learning PHP. Uh PHP is a
serverside language. It powers 70% of
the internet. It powers WordPress, all
the WordPress uh websites. It powers uh
Drupal, which is still very much used.
It powers Wikipedia. A lot of government
agencies are using using PHP. And
basically um I think it's an agent from
OpenAI and Gemini that found a
vulnerability basically that enables
hackers to inject code without having
access to the server. Um no one ever
found it before. AI found it. And so
until this was patched, the advice was
now that this is known, you should
probably take your website down. So
government entities, companies actually
took the website down for for a little
bit.
>> Wow.
>> Uh this is one of the first instance of
AI finding vulnerability in in code that
is, you know, over a decade old that no
one else has found.
>> That's incredibly impressive. I one of
the things that fascinated me actually
is about the use of AI in particular
when it comes to cyber security, but
also the insurance around cyber attacks.
Do you think that this is something that
we're going to see more and more of
where you know if you're an underwriter,
an insurance underwriter, actually most
of what you can do now with AI is
actually go out, scour, find these gaps,
find these vulnerabilities, and then
actually support your clients. Do you
think we're going to see people doing
that or do you think this is going to
continue to be something that bad actors
just leverage them themselves?
>> No, I think for me this is, you know,
extremely positive because if you think
about what is the outcome of that? Well,
the outcome is we found a vulnerability
that we didn't know about and now we can
patch it. Um, you know, I think
>> obviously there will be bad actors with
everything, right? Every technology has
two sides. It can always be used for
good and it can be weaponized against
it. Um, but the fact that AI discovered
this prevents AI for making further
damage. So, it is it is a positive thing
and I think it's it's just a general,
you know, approach to how you're
thinking about the future. Um, you can't
really be afraid of of that. Of course,
every technology has risk, but it would
be the same as saying, you know, let's
stick to horses because cars, you know,
could lead to more accidents.
>> Well, cars are actually safer over time
and it also enables you to go much
faster. So, it's the same it's the same
with AI. I think um in Europe we're
quite guilty of always looking at this
from you know the the glass half empty
um perspective and the goal is always to
regulate or you know add buyers to entry
or making it really hard to do
something. The reality is
>> this would work if you were in a world
that operates in silo. So if you can
regulate the entire of Europe and
therefore there no there's no more risk
posed by AI sure that works. But the
problem is you have the US, you have
China, you have all these guys. They're
not going to be regulated. So what
happens? They're going to keep
developing and now they have essentially
a weapon or something that can be used
in a dangerous manner. And because we
haven't built the defenses now actually
we are we're more at risk. So I think um
>> you know all these things have to be
developed together and AI being able to
find vulnerabilities, making code safer
overall is a is a positive thing.
>> Yeah, I agree. Another thing that was
interesting um in the topic of
sovereignty, the Bank Emirates NBD is
becoming the first bank in the region to
run OpenAI models inside the UAE. You
know, banks are the most regulated
entities in the region. So for them, the
data, customer data, transaction data,
this has to be in the region. If this
gets processed somehow using AI, you
cannot just send that, you know, to
other to other countries. So I think
this is going to be the first of many.
We talked at length about the importance
of sovereignty. It's also much more
difficult to be fully sovereign. There's
a lot of investments that have to be
made. Big companies will lead that
charge. But I think we're going to see
more and more companies do that. If you
really want to scale beyond the pilot
>> and process most of your data,
>> then you cannot afford to outsource that
intelligence to a different place.
>> Okay. So the question that comes to mind
for me here with this as an MRS MBD
customer, right, one, am I going to be
seeing, you know, chat GPT come up in
the app? So I'm able to create my own
reports as a customer and look at where
am I spending money, how much money is
going on, Kareem, noon, etc. on various
different food things. And also why did
they pick Open AI versus Anthropic? Like
what do you think the reason is for that
decision?
>> I think the reason is a matter of
proximity. Um Open AI has a presence
here.
>> True.
>> They recently actually opened an office.
Um they're going to be part of uh
>> yeah they're they're making big moves in
the region, let's say. And uh so far
Antropic I think the closest is probably
Singapore latest office. So you know you
know how things work here. You have to
be here. Obviously the the sovereign
funds of the region have stakes in both.
So they're riding both. But um when it
comes to doing deals with companies here
you have to be in the region. You have
to be here. Even if you are OpenAI or
anthropic proximity matters. So that's
my guess. Obviously I wasn't there in
the room but that's probably what
happened. Yeah, I know there's tight
regulation around gambling, but I would
love to know the live odds of Anthropic
making or opening an office here in the
region. It's got to be nailed on in the
next three to six months surely. But
talking about AI models, um I don't know
if you've seen spent time on on X, but
there's a lot of new alternative models
to LLM that are popping off over the
last couple of months, but really over
the last couple of weeks, there were a
few launches. uh you may have heard of
Jev, World Labs, Newton, AMI, Genie from
Google. Those are not LLMs, right? They
do not crunch text. They are either
striving to understand the world, what
is called the world model or more like a
decision model. So, they use math
instead of words to make decisions. And
it's quite interesting actually and the
the underlying thesis behind all of this
uh which is believed by a lot of people
in the space is that LLMs actually are
not going to get us to AGI. Yeah,
because all the LLMs can do is to crunch
text and media, right? So they're
multimodel, so they can crunch videos
and all of that. You can still learn a
lot, but you miss a big part of
understanding the world,
>> right? If you can only see what is the
written track record of the world and
now these models have in ingested the
entire collection of books. They
ingested all the the internet. So
there's not much extra data for them.
Um, if you think about us humans, how
did we learn to do anything? Well, we
didn't read a book. We looked around and
we probably imitated our parents and
just look at things. And I see my son,
you know, just when I look at the wa my
watch now, he's doing this.
>> Yeah.
>> So, it's just picking picking things up,
right? So, walking, talking, counting,
mainly we do it by copying our
environment. So what these models are
doing, they're basically putting sensors
out in the world or recording what is
happening to be able to mimic and create
a model around that action. So now you
have companies that are putting cameras
on their waiters um so that they can
actually see what does the waiter do
because that is not something that you
can learn by
>> reading a book, right? You learn by
following someone who knows what they're
doing. So how do you extract that
knowledge from the real world or from
the head of people that are actually in
that job and you package that into a
model that understand the world. So I
think the future is going to be
>> um obviously be going beyond the LLM.
2027 is going to be the year of the
alternative model in my opinion. Um this
doesn't replace LLMs but it complements
them because then you have knowledge
from the written world, you have
knowledge from the physical world. If
you put that together, you start to have
something really really powerful which
would hopefully get us to to the state
of AGI. So, just something I've noticed
lately. Um, pay attention to that. And
and those models, by the way, those
neolabs as we call them are commending
the biggest rounds, the biggest
valuations because foundational
technology, right? Every VC that has
missed OpenAI Antropic is looking for
their next trillion dollar companies,
not just the application layer, you
know, 100 billion plus. What is the next
trillion dollar company? and those are
prime candidates because they are
changing the approach to
something.
>> Do you know or do you think that we'll
have a uh a kind of meaner localized
world model? Do you think that that's on
the cards?
>> A lot of the models world models right
now are more industry specific. Okay. So
you would have a model um Newton for
example from archetype AI um some very
smart guys that used to be at Google
they focus mainly on manufacturing use
cases. So they would go to uh
manufacturing plant or you know any of
those industrial areas and they would
put sensors on some of the machinery so
they can track the motion of things and
based on that they would build a model
physics based model that you can then
use to predict the point of failure of
certain components. um you know things
that you just can't find literature
about. Very interesting.
>> So this is specific to that. There are
models that are specific to um to to um
faster decisions when it comes to
negotiating contracts for example. So at
the moment most of the models are very
verticalized um and I think you know
will remain to see who who comes first
in the region and is able to um make it
really a regional model.
>> That's very exciting. It's going to be
interesting to see how this plays out.
>> A lot of push for AI. The Dubai just
announced that they were pushing Agentic
AI into 14,000 companies. Wow. And 11
big companies in the region, the
Emirates, DP World, AA Clinic, they've
already signed up to to use AI. Yeah. Um
the the news actually mentioned uh that
Dubai Chambers is signing two companies,
Nibius Academy and Lovable to basically
push their product into those 14,000
companies. So again, a great example of
how when the government gets involved
here, things can go really fast and
they're pushing in the right direction.
>> Yeah. And I can tell you firsthand, the
team at Dubai Chambers um or all of the
entities that sit around Dubai Chambers
are incredibly incredibly intelligent
people and very uh pushy and moving fast
on the adoption of AI. And I think this
is one of the most exciting things for
if you are an AI founder looking to
build or even looking to expand into
this region. The intent to purchase, the
intent to adopt, the willingness to try.
Y
>> is hugely exciting
>> and the programs that you can plug into
to accelerate that growth. Right. The
Shik Hamden's plan is to target 295,000
companies. I don't know why they didn't
round it up to 300, but uh it's 295,000
companies, 100 specialized AI assistant.
Um so again, everything is quantified
and we're working towards making that
happen over time and this is the first
announcement of of many.
>> Do you see that? Mron was in town.
>> I I'm not even going to try and
pronounce it how you did it, but um I
did see that Macron was in town and I
did wonder whether it was to uh come and
celebrate the new lovely new car that
you bought recently. Um but we uh we're
keeping that
>> he didn't make time for me. I invited
him but
>> he didn't want to see you.
>> No, he didn't get back.
>> I don't understand why.
>> I think he has a lot of important things
to do um inside the country and outside.
So let's speak first about what he was
here to do. Yeah, obviously the deal was
mainly about AI and energy. Um,
basically Mron and um and the government
here they signed a bunch of deals. One
with uh MBZ University. Yeah. Another
one with G42. They also brought AM labs
which is a world model actually built by
Yan Lakun who used to lead AI at
Facebook at Meta. um they raised about a
billion dollars in seed and they also
signed an LOI with the the Abu Dhabi
government. Um the main reason the main
objective was obviously to get capital.
So in France we're building campus AI
which is also our own data center which
is targeting over a gawatt of power 1.4
gawatt that's $50 billion and so the UAE
MGX essentially is going to be partially
funding this.
>> Yeah. Um, which is which is exciting.
But I think what it outlines
>> is that the AI is not just technology
anymore. No,
>> AI is basically weaving into politics,
into energy, of course. And so it the
stakes are so big that now it's not just
the entrepreneurs in the in the private
sector that are dealing with each other.
Yeah. It has to go to the head of
states. Yeah. Right. Because the race to
AI is a race to energy. We already
talked about that. If you think about
why the UAE is staying that aligned with
the US right in the face of all the
geopolitical events that are happening,
>> what my guess is it it has to do with
access to GPUs, right? And the the GPU
is the hottest commodity right now. It's
literally the the new gold. You know,
data used to be new gold and the new oil
or whatever. And now it's compute. Um,
and after that, the US moved the UAE
into a new export group. I see.
>> So, which makes it much easier for them
to export GPUs to the UAE. The whole
region, Middle East region is D tier,
very hard to import anything from the US
here. All this, you know, precious
metals, commodities and um and and GPUs.
And now UA is a tier, which is Europe
level very easy to to attract uh to to
import GPUs. Yeah. So, all of these is
important now in the mind of our leaders
when they consider you know what move to
make. Now AI, compute, access to energy,
access to capital to build the next data
center is on their mind. It's part of
the negotiation.
>> Completely agree and I think you know
we've we've often spoken about this as
you know the the next industrial
revolution. What happened during the
industrial revolution was you had you
wellestablished economies and countries
basically funding the industrial
development in emerging markets and
ultimately owning those assets. We're
now seeing that play out with AI, right?
Cognitive revolution.
>> And I think Yeah, exactly. And I think
that's why it's interesting to see this
deal that has been struck and also
seeing the amount of sovereign and and
you know Middle Eastern capital that's
then flowing back into the
infrastructure buildouts across Europe
as well. So yeah, I think this is a
trend that's going to continue. Um it
would be interesting to see what the UK
can do to answer this and whether there
is anything planned um for for for
building that out there.
>> Yeah, absolutely. Well, to give credit
to Makon, his uh over his mandate, he
did a lot of good for early stage
funding. You know, the the pole of early
stage funding in Europe used to be UK by
far, raising three, four times more than
any other country. That's why I started
my first company in London. And now, uh
Paris and France is actually higher when
>> the super early stage may not still be
the the strongest, but series A and
above, France is is by far the place to
be for for Europe, for his capital in
Europe. So fair play. That was uh that
was incredible. Um but is facing we are
facing other other challenges. Obviously
as you know I am French and uh what
we're seeing in the in the press and
online right now is um is pretty um you
know it's it's a real tragedy what's
happening in France right now. I don't
know if you've seen that but um we were
talking a bit about that last week but
Abu Dhabi is now productizing their
government platform TAM. Um kind of
makes me want to live in Abu Dhabi. The
platform is very nice actually. This is
a government service platform that
groups I think 14,000 1400 sorry
government services into one. It's very
well designed. We talked about
America.gov.
It kind of has the same look and feel
like startup, you know, cool tech
product rather than old school
government service. And uh it includes
things like healthcare, housing,
traffic. You can do everything there.
It's a one-stop shop for your entire,
you know, life in in Abu Dhabi. Wow. and
they're now productizing it and they are
selling this super app to other
governments that want to become digital.
>> Yeah, that's really interesting. Have
they spoken much about who if if anyone
from a government perspective is looking
at being a customer of that? I'd be
fascinated to know which governments are
looking at it going actually yeah the
you know the UAE and and especially Abu
Dhabi and the way they've built this
product like this is the the benchmark
for how you should be doing this stuff.
>> Yeah. No, I don't think this was
mentioned, but it feels like, you know,
you could go to countries in Asia, uh
maybe possibly Africa, countries that
really want to modernize quickly. They
just don't have the infrastructure and
the knowhow. Yeah. And you basically get
these turnkey products. You have to plug
all your systems and services. Um but
it's it's quite interesting. Again, it
shows that the government is is in the
business of doing business, right? They
are looking to make profit. And I think
this is uh you know when when you don't
have taxes when you don't collect taxes
you kind of have to fight for your
revenue you have to fight to eat as
well. And that's why the government this
my theory that the government is so
entrepreneurial and they have to do
deals. They have to do things because
they don't really have a steady stream
of income. You know if the oil revenue
goes down they go down. They have to
find just like any other company. They
have to find revenue streams. They have
to find ways to monetize. And so this is
why they're now productizing something
and actually selling it to other other
parts of the world. I think this is this
is brilliant.
>> I think it's really exciting. And I
think the you know the kind of
interesting metric here is you know from
a a GDP perspective or or even looking
at exports you know what percentage of
exports from the UAE are actually now
from technology versus oil. I think this
would be a really interesting analysis
to run and actually where is this
trending over time because you know the
government initiatives to bring
technology companies into this region
the amount of infrastructure that's
being built the talent that we now talk
about that's here in the region I
guarantee the trend line is that the
percentage of export value that comes
from technology is significantly
increasing and increasing at a rate that
is far higher than oil exports.
>> Okay, let me do some quick research. So
um digital service and technology it's
about 33 billion in experts a year which
is 6.5% of the total experts.
>> Um I think there's a strategy where they
want to get that over 10% by 2030 from
from memory.
>> Yeah I can see why that would be a big
goal. Um it's exciting though and I can
imagine at the trend line as well. Um
I'm sure we can do some better research
on this and look at the trend line over
time because I think it would be
exciting.
>> Yeah. Well, I know for a fact that uh if
you compare with with countries around
um UA is definitely leading the pack,
but other countries, they all have
digital strategy. They all want, you
know, digital services to contribute
between 10 and 15% within the next
couple years.
>> Yeah. Okay. And some of the craziest
news that we've uh seen this week. Um
tell me about this unusual odor that's
been reported across the UAE. And
>> I read this article. I was looking for
something else and I I land on this page
as police reassures residents over
unusual odors across the UAE. Uh I
didn't smell anything personally but I
feel like
>> if you smell something weird outside and
you know the police is needed to tell
you that everything is okay. It feels a
bit worrying. I don't know what it could
be but um maybe some factories or
something. I don't know.
>> Well, keep an eye on it cuz you uh
you're further down near Shar. You joke
about me being near Abu Dhabi, but yeah,
it doesn't smell up near where we live.
So, yeah.
>> Yeah, the smell didn't travel that far.
>> No, exactly. We're totally We're totally
fine. I want to talk about the Tesla
Roadster. Uh cuz this has been
everywhere. And
>> talk about a product demo.
>> We we like our cars, right? Um and we're
both car fans. Um firstly, do you think
that this is all hype? I've seen some
reports now. I've seen posts on X about
this being a a frame, a stunt car that
was probably inside just completely
filled with there's no seats in there.
It's just gas canisters, tanks,
everything. Right. This is obviously not
a production ready vehicle. What do you
think about that?
>> Uh you can order it with the with the
boosters.
>> You can order it with the boosters. It's
actually available in Dubai now. You can
go to the Tesla website and you can make
a deposit. I think it's Yeah. 200
200,000 dams.
>> Okay. Um, and you can you can put your
name on it. And you have options. You
have the performance car, which is just,
you know, already insanely fast, but it
doesn't have the the thrusters. You can
have one with the thrusters at the back.
So, this is just to accelerate to from 0
to 6 miles per hour in less than a
second. And then you have the option
that is invite only. This one has the
thrusters at the bottom. So, the car can
actually can actually jump. It does say
that the, you know, the the the is not
basically ready for for road.
Understandably, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I think if they could just roll that out
um straight away,
>> you see this one where the car jumps
over the sele.
>> So, my first thought when I saw this
product demo, I thought, okay, what are
people in Dubai going to be using it
for? Uh let's play the clip cuz this is
100% what's going to be happening.
Now, how many years do you need to jump
over the bridge to make up for the extra
cost of the car? Uh, which will be
pretty expensive with the thrusters. But
it it basically has a it has a tank, 200
liter tank in the back. So, you have two
seats in the front, no seats in the
back. And that tank replenishes as you
drive. It's just air compresses it and
pushes it back. It's the same technology
that SpaceX uses, which is probably one
of the first true collaboration between
Tesla and SpaceX. Which brings me to the
next topic. What do you think the odds
are that those two companies will merge
by the end of the year?
>> This is very interesting. Yeah, I think
this is a topic that everyone should be
probably tracking and probably watching.
I think let's extrapolate out a little
bit further and go into, okay, well,
what does it mean to, you know, what
does urban mobility actually look like?
What does mobility in its entirety look
like? How are we going to as human
beings live between Earth and
potentially another planet? You know,
there are all these questions that come
into play. you know firsthand, right,
that technology in F1 and kind of elite,
you know, motorsport conditions does
filter down to cars eventually, right?
I'm not saying it does on our on our
family car. Probably not. But at the end
of the day, when we are pushing
boundaries at the very limit of
innovation, whether it be for
competition purposes or whether it be
pure, you know, exploration into space,
this technology then just does advance
humanity over time. So I think this is a
net positive thing, right? It has to be,
you know, at the end of the day, if
they're lifting uh SpaceX technology
into vehicles,
>> I think that's going to be a massive
win. Um, I actually got sent a video by
my uh my middle brother this week. He's
over in the US at the moment, and he
took the Tesla cab for the first time
ever, which is Yeah. Cyber Cab, which
has obviously no steering wheel
>> in Austin.
>> Yeah, it was. Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
So, what's super interesting about that
is that for anyone who's been in a
Whimo, been in any kind of self-driving
vehicle, you probably would have asked
yourself the question, what is this
going to do to the way we produce cars
and we actually engage in a car? Um,
obviously, we tried to go down to the
Dubai driverless pods. We'll keep that
clip for another time. Uh, but you know,
it makes you ask the question, will we
have two seats, two seats, and a
steering wheel in the future?
>> I don't believe that's going to be the
way that we build cars in the future. No
way.
>> It's a stripped down car. I mean, the
the car the cyber cap costs like $20,000
to produce, right? All the all the
direction uh the way you drive the the
all of that is removed. You have more
space and it's just fully automated by
AI. So, you actually save a lot of uh a
lot of cost. And um yeah, if you think
about how Elon's kind of masterminded
this whole empire of companies,
>> um obviously on Mars or on the moon, you
can't run a petrol engine, right? It
requires oxygen to work. So it has to be
electric
require solar solar city which they
acquired. It all comes together and
obviously with AI which would pilot you
know all of that and the access to
energy now with uh Terrafab building
their own chips is building a a master
company that um he says himself is
probably going to be orders of magnitude
bigger than what the biggest company is
today because it will be the gateway to
space and when space is unlocked you
have an entire new wave of companies and
opportunities that can happen there. So
completely agree. Yeah,
>> very bullish. Um, actually Elon actually
is giving one share of SpaceX to every
kid in America. Did you see that
announcement?
>> No, I didn't see that.
>> 70 million shares um share is about $150
right now. And uh he's putting that, you
know, the Trump accounts that they did.
It's a it's a similar play basically to
give, you know, one share and let the
the American people participate in the
growth of that company. And uh obviously
it's a great way to get you know people
to in probably put more money in the
company right let's take this ownership
from one share to two shares. So a lot
of people manage to complain about that
as as people do that it was
self-interested. I think it's a we
always talk about how how can we get
other people to participate in that
wealth creation. Um so I think that's
it's an incredible thing.
>> This is a cool game. Green red flag
green flag. You know the drill. Uh, I'm
going to give you scenarios and you just
tell me what you think.
>> Okay.
>> So, number one,
you're hiring and a candidate is
negotiating is holiday allowance.
>> It's probably a red flag. Uh to me I
think it's always a red flag. Although
I'm starting to see more and more
contracts now with this unlimited
holiday policy which I think is fine if
people are incentivized via equity and
are the type that they're
entrepreneurial enough to want to go on
the big vision. Right.
>> That's the second one. Candidate
negotiate is equity allowance
>> 100%. Yeah. I think anyone who isn't
doing that part of the company.
>> Yeah. Exactly. It's it's not the way to
do it.
>> Number three. An investor says, "Let's
meet up after the summer."
Must be a European visious reasons.
>> Number four, an entrepreneur you want to
back has multiple projects.
>> Musk has multiple projects. I think it
depends on that seed though.
>> It depends on the Yeah, true. Okay.
Depends on the quality of the
entrepreneur, right? Um and also what
are those projects? Um that's
>> the story doesn't say.
>> I think it's a red flag. I think I mean
as a as a VC, I know VCs want you to be
all in, right? Because building a
company is hard enough as it is that if
you have side projects, it's, you know,
you you need to be 200% committed.
>> I agree. Okay. VC hat on. Red flag.
>> Red flag. Founding team doesn't have
domain expertise.
>> I'm okay with that. I think that's okay
in terms of if they have a very
counterintuitive or unique view of the
problem that they're trying to solve or
even the technology. Sometimes having a
fresh perspective can bring something
totally outside of the box. Right. I
think so. And number five, the founders
own 50% equity after the seed round.
This used to be a red flag, but I think
it's becoming increasingly common with
the size of rounds that are being done
and the type of investors that are going
in on these rounds as well. So, I would
say it used to be a red flag and now
it's one of those things that I'm
probably on the fence about.
>> Right. I guess if you go for a trillion
dollar outcome, you can leave with less
equity, right? This is what happened
with Entropic.
>> Yeah.
Number six, an investor asked for a
board seat at preede.
>> No, red flag. Um, that's not something
that anyone would do. Board observer,
but you don't even need a board, right?
There's there's there's too many things
that you're just you sitting in a room
that's on fire trying to figure it out,
right? So, um, yeah, and and most
investors are not going to add value at
that stage, right? The funny thing is
like quite often the smaller investors,
you know, the guy that puts 5K because
you let him in are the most annoying,
the ones that want the the daily
updates.
>> Completely agree. Yeah. And the other
thing actually on that big red flag is
that most investors who will push for
that will then ask for fees for it as
well. Um, I've found that and I've seen
that before. That's a no-go.
>> Number seven, the co-founders have known
each other for less than six months.
>> I've seen it work. You've seen it. It
happens in accelerators all the time.
Um, I think it depends what they've done
in those 6 months. I often ask founders,
okay, when was the last time you had an
argument? When was the last time you
fell out? Right? How do you kind of
overcome problems? And you'll find that
most people, if they're level-headed
about it and rational about it, and
they've spoken about what they want to
achieve with the company, then they're
fine. They're okay with that.
>> So, is that a green or red?
>> I'll give it a green. Did I put the red
up? Yeah.
>> My bad.
>> A startup's biggest client is the
government.
If they're in the UAE, it's fine.
>> The seed founder pays themsself a market
rate salary.
>> It's probably Yeah. Sorry, my bad. I'm
like turning it around. It's probably a
red flag.
>> We're talking about normal seed, not
like, you know, a billion dollar seed.
>> Yeah. Okay. The issue with this is
there's a lot of context, right? You
know, if you're a single parent and you
have a mortgage and you have to provide,
I understand why you would pay yourself
what you can. Um,
>> does it make a difference for you as an
investor, though? Um, at the end of the
day, I want the the founder to be
focused on what they're doing, right?
Um, and if that means that they have to
pay themselves that salary, well, it's
up to them to convince me that they
should raise that amount of capital.
>> What about if an investor wants
exclusivity before sending a term sheet?
>> No, it's a no. It's a big red flag.
Like, it's not going to happen. And
actually, the best investors out there
are the ones who know they've won the
deal and they will say to you, "Okay,
you have a term sheet. Go and shop it
around and basically bring other
investors in." And the last one, what if
the lead investor doesn't want to take
their praa in the next round?
>> It's a red flag. It's a really tricky
one. Yeah, it's a red flag. Um, and
that's why I think it's more important
than ever that founders are asking
investors where are they in their fund
cycles. Um, and I also think I was
chatting to I won't name the fund or or
the person, but a very good friend
recently who has a massive fund in the
US and was saying actually that a lot of
managers now who have had crazy writeups
because of AI believe that they're very
good at the job and actually they're
raising massive funds off the back of
that fund too and he thinks that it's a
bit of a house of cards and it's going
to come crashing down and you know as
someone who's on I think they're on fund
six dual strategy. Yeah. Like I would
listen to him and say that that's
probably right. So yeah, tricky one
again.
>> All right, we're done with the game.
>> Well, look, thank you so much for
joining us for episode two of the
Founding Mina Show. You can find us
everywhere on YouTube, Instagram, Tik
Tok, X, pretty much every platform
coming as well.
>> Yeah, we have the clips coming. We have
everything coming out. So, if you like
this episode, please um follow us across
all of those channels. Thank you very
much for joining and we will see you
next week for more Mina Tech news.
>> See you next week.